savvy hotspot! the future (don't you hate it when people use "future" without the article: e.g., "in future" -sheesh) of internet freedom depends on this kind of thing, especially the number one principle--freedom, but it may be well beyond our little independent hands to keep up, as are most things the rich eventually strangle.

You're right in that constructing a set of principles is absolutedly independent from getting any of them considered or enforced. And when we just sit around and dream up what we think the principles should be, we get things like the Library Censorware Wish List, pure impractical dreams.

However, in every area of politics, it often seems as if the liberal side has far more trouble organizing themselves than the conservative, for whatever reason (and several could be offered). The democratic party in the current election is far from focused on a single policy platform; they've achieved tremendous unity only because of the shared goal of removing Bush from office.

I think an attempt to define reasonable principles is an attempt to fix this, to construct an organization, a movement, a group of like-minded individuals who want to try to change the world. There are two separate steps to the process of changing the world. The first is getting a group of people together and deciding what to try to change it into. The second is fighting for those goals, and it's in this process that the impossible dreams (such as open blacklists) are removed.

Now none of this argues against the 'been there, done that, doesn't work' claim. It's possible that beginning by debating a set of principles is not the best way to try to form a unified movement. It's also possible that we liberal 'netizens', to use an overused buzzword, are incapable of organizing ourselves. But we ought to try, through any and all means.

oops..I posted this yesterday in the wrong place...here it is again...

Seth wrote"I'm particularly fond of the item where "Users and communities should have access to ... lists of blocked sites ...". That won't happen. All the major companies keep their blacklists secret, and they sue to prevent exposure. "

...........................

For your continued amusement Seth...

How did this slip below your radar ?

http://research.internetfilter.com/research.php

There is even an add for you on the left....

although you might have to load a page or two because they are outputed at random....

As Kojac would say "Who loves you baby"

Best Regards